User talk:TongcyDai

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— justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 13:35, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Entries for unattested inflected forms

Hey, just a heads-up: for Gothic, as for most dead languages, we don't automatically create entries for all forms of a word, only for those that are attested (with some exceptions, listed at WT:About Gothic#Unattested forms). I deleted 𐌸𐌿𐍃𐌿𐌽𐌳𐌾𐌰𐌹 (þusundjai) and 𐌸𐌿𐍃𐌿𐌽𐌳𐌾𐌰 (þusundja) which you created for that reason. If you are wondering about forms or lemmas that are attested but lack an entry: most are found in Category:Gothic romanizations without a main entry. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 10:58, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Mnemosientje: Thank you for telling me this! I will keep that in mind.TongcyDai (talk) 21:00, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

No problem, happy editing — Mnemosientje (t · c) 21:22, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Entry Arrangement

Hi! Welcome to Wiktionary! Thanks for adding Taiwanese Aboriginal language entries here. I noticed a few weeks ago, you added the entries in hakasi, but when I saw them, they were not arranged alphabetically by language and they didn't have dividers. I fixed it already, but just a reminder to arrange the languages alphabetically next time and add dividers "----" between each language. Thanks! --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:14, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Thank you for your reminder, I will keep that in mind! I didn't notice that since we don't have clear style manual in zhwiktionary :P TongcyDai (talk) 04:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

打工

Hi, may I ask what does 打工 mean in Taiwan? Is it equivalent to 工讀, or is it equivalent to sense 1 we now have at 打工 (dǎgōng)? RcAlex36 (talk) 03:51, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36 In my opinion, 打工 is used for temporary or part-time job, which doesn't require much knowledge (in contrast with 正職), like working on a construction site, being a waiter in a restaurant, distributing flyers and so on. So it's not necessarily 工讀, but when 學生 and 打工 are used together, the term 打工 usually implies 工讀. TongcyDai (talk) 07:16, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

大慈大悲 in Taiwanese Hokkien

Hi, how would 大慈大悲 be pronounced in Taiwanese Hokkien? It looks like 台日大辭典 breaks it into 大慈 大悲 (see here). Does this mean there is no sandhi on the second character 慈, i.e. the chengyu is pronounced tāi-chû# tāi-pi, at least according to 台日大辭典? And do common people read the chengyu with or without tone sandhi on 慈? RcAlex36 (talk) 13:46, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36 It is correct to pronounce it as tāi-chû# tāi-pi#, but it is also fine to have tone sandhi in the middle. --TongcyDai (talk) 14:14, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

騎樓

Hi, in Taiwanese Mandarin, does 騎樓 also refer to the roofed pedestrian walkway, in addition to the overhanging structure above? Or is the roofed pedestrian walkway called 騎樓下? In [1] and [2] 騎樓 seems to refer to the roofed pedestrian walkway. RcAlex36 (talk) 17:03, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36 My dictionary (國語活用辭典) says: "指道路境界線至建築物底層外牆面之空間，且上方有遮蔽物或樓層者。" --TongcyDai (talk) 07:22, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

CAT:Indo-Aryan reference templates

Discussion moved to Special:PermanentLink/64486872#Undeletion_of_CAT:Indo-Aryan_reference_templates.

西貢

How do you pronounce 西貢 (Ho Chi Minh City) in Taiwanese Hokkien? RcAlex36 (talk) 04:36, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36 I would personally say Se-kòng, and I have never heard my friends using Sai-kòng. 臺日典 has the entry 西貢 Se-kòng but not Sai-kòng. --TongcyDai (talk) 15:28, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

延字心

Hey- did you mean to do this edit[3]? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 19:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative Sorry, that was a wrong edit. I've fixed it and thank you for noticing me! --TongcyDai (talk) 21:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Unicode 15.0

Hi, I just updated the Appendix:Unicode on Indonesian Wiktionary, if you want to do the same on English Wiktionary, you might want to see my recent contributions at Indonesian Wiktionary. I'd love to help to update the modules on English Wiktionary as well but sadly the modules were protected and I don't have edit access to them. Ekirahardian (talk) 06:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ekirahardian: Thanks a lot! I noticed that at least one admin has been reminded that the modules should be updated, hope the work will be done soon! --TongcyDai (talk) 08:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ekirahardian: Just to ask, is id:Modul:Unicode data/scripts in the newest version? --TongcyDai (talk) 13:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I finally be able to update it, the Makefile script does not cover id:Modul:Unicode data/scripts so I write my own script in JavaScript to generate it. Ekirahardian (talk) 20:20, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I think the script should not be used, for now, there are some weird problem that happened after I updated the module. Ekirahardian (talk) 20:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ekirahardian: Thank you for telling me. What is the problem? To be honest, I don't understand what is this script for. --TongcyDai (talk) 20:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Sometimes the script value cannot be detected or have the wrong value, for example, codepoints on Appendix:Unicode/Ethiopic Extended-B should have the Script value Ethi (Ethiopic), but they were detected as General Category Lo (Other Letter) (id:Lampiran:Unicode/Ethiopic_Extended-B).

BTW, I was referring to my own script in JavaScript when I said the script should not be used, not the module. Ekirahardian (talk) 20:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Zuojiang Zhuang

Hi! What's your source for chaeux, cweg and pyaeuh? 沈澄心✉ 04:13, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@沈澄心: Hi, I think these terms are taken from Zuojiang Zhuang in Chinese Wikipedia, though the page does not indicate the source clearly. --TongcyDai (talk) 12:06, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmm… Wikipedia is not reliable. 沈澄心✉ 12:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@沈澄心: The words seem to come from 《龍州土語》, but rewritten in Standard Zhuang orthography. If you think that's inappropriate, you can delete them. --TongcyDai (talk) 13:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

主祷文

You made a mistake here, you gave a Chinese term as the definition when it should have an English meaning listed. Acolyte of Ice (talk) 13:57, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

@Acolyte of Ice: Sorry for that, I will be more careful next time. --TongcyDai (talk) 14:05, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

User talk:2402:800:63B8:C4AF:A142:3F03:84A1:F853

our very brilliant editor who always produces good formatting has no need for such lowly templates! —Fish bowl (talk) 01:53, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Module:User:TongcyDai/cpx-pron/data

Why is this userspace module being used in mainspace entries? — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 19:58, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

@Surjection: I copied over the test code and forgot to change it back. Thanks for catching that. TongcyDai (talk) 00:28, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

CAT:E

You removed the support for certain finals from Module:cpx-pron, but Template:zh-pron's documentation page uses one of those in an example, so both the template and the documentation page are in CAT:E with the same module error. I suppose it's easy in hindsight to suggest that you check the transclusions in at least the template namespace, but even checking CAT:E for a few days after your edits should have brought the problem to your attention (plus it takes a while for the changes to propagate out to the entries when there are multiple steps in the transclusion like this- so entries are still showing up there even now...). Chuck Entz (talk) 04:16, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thank you very much for bringing this issue to my attention. I sincerely apologize for the oversight. Although I focused on updating all mainspace entries to ensure they used the new romanization system, I completely failed to check the template namespace. I have now made a substantial update to the documentation and have asked another administrator to update it. I will be more careful in the future. Thank you again for pointing this out. TongcyDai (talk) 18:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

刺

Your edit left the page with a module error. Please fix it. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 14:39, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz Thank you for pointing that out! --TongcyDai (talk) 14:43, 10 July 2025 (UTC)

Stop removing the country from audio pronunciations.

Please stop removing the country from audio pronunciations. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 08:47, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Hi. The machine-imported format, for example, a=France (Toulouse), creates an awkward double-parentheses display, and more importantly, this format prevents the automatic linking functionality that Wiktionary's audio module is designed to provide. When we use a=Toulouse instead, the system automatically generates a link to the relevant Wikipedia page (in this case, w:Meridional French), which provides readers with valuable linguistic context about the dialect or accent being represented. In many language sections across Wiktionary, regional audio qualifiers routinely specify cities or regions without unnecessarily including the country name, and this is the standard practice.

Could you please explain the specific reasoning behind requiring the country name in these audio labels? What benefit does "France (Toulouse)" provide over "Toulouse" when the latter generates automatic educational links and the former creates formatting issues? TongcyDai (talk) 09:33, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Hi again. I notice you haven't responded to my question from a few days ago about the reasoning behind the current audio format. Since you appear to have bot access for importing these audio files, could you please modify the qualifier format to match the conventions (i.e., using a=Toulouse instead of a=France (Toulouse))? This would eliminate the formatting issues and restore the automatic linking functionality, which would prevent other editors from needing to make these corrections manually. If there's a specific technical or policy reason for maintaining the current format with the country names, please let me know what it is. Otherwise, I believe having a bot update the existing qualifiers would be the most efficient solution for everyone. TongcyDai (talk) 08:13, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Those "corrections" will be overridden in the next bot run. There is no policy requiring us to label audios the way you describe. For languages spoken in multiple countries with a range of accents, it is clearer to also include the country rather than forcing users to guess the location or look up the name of an unfamiliar city. For that reason, I will not be modifying the current format. If you want to codify your way of doing things, you can bring it up at the Beer Parlour and you would need a vote. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 08:43, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Thank you for your response. While you're correct that there isn't a formal policy mandating this format, I believe you're overlooking the well-established convention that has been followed across multiple major languages on Wiktionary for years.

Looking at the actual label modules for English, Spanish and French, we can see that when cities or regions are specified, the country name is consistently omitted. For instance, the French module includes labels like "Toulouse" (linking to Meridional French), "Lyon", "Marseille", etc., while the English module has "Boston", "Chicago", "Manchester", etc. I believe that this isn't arbitrary—it's a systematic approach that has been working effectively.

I'm curious about your suggestion that I should seek a vote to "codify my way of doing things." Given that different language communities may indeed have their own practices, was the format your bot uses implemented following community discussion or a vote within the French community? I'd be very interested to learn about any previous discussions the French community has had on this matter. If no such community consensus exists, then I believe following the broader conventions used across multiple languages would be more appropriate than each individual editor establishing their own formatting standards.

Regarding your point about user confusion with unfamiliar city names: this concern, while understandable, doesn't justify breaking the established linking system. The current approach (using city names that auto-link to relevant Wikipedia articles) actually provides more educational value than simply adding country names. A link to "Meridional French" tells users far more about the linguistic significance of a Toulouse pronunciation than "France (Toulouse)" ever could.

Moreover, country names don't necessarily clarify accent distinctions—linguistic boundaries often don't align with political ones. For instance, Belgian French shares many features with Northern French (both being northern varieties), yet both differ significantly from Meridional French in southern France. In this case, "Belgium" vs "France (Nord-Pas-de-Calais)" vs "France (Toulouse)" tells us far less about actual linguistic relationships than the specific regional labels with their automatic links to relevant Wikipedia articles about the linguistic varieties themselves.

If geographical education is truly a concern, wouldn't a comprehensive appendix explaining regional varieties be more appropriate than cluttering every audio entry with redundant country names? TongcyDai (talk) 09:32, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I see your points, but calling this a "well-established convention" is overstated. What you're describing is a habit in some modules, not an official policy.

The bot format I use was chosen for clarity. Many users aren't familiar with regional city names, so including the country immediately gives context. A label like "France (Toulouse)" is easier to understand than just "Toulouse".

Linguistic boundaries don't always match political ones, but Wiktionary serves general readers, not just specialists. Countries are widely understood; cities are not.

We can still preserve linking using inner modifiers, so the "Toulouse" in "France (Toulouse)" can point to "Meridional French" or the relevant article. This keeps both clarity and educational value.

For context, your edit adding {{fr-IPA}} left the "Canada (Shawinigan)" label the bot added untouched.

If you want to change this practice, it would need a discussion at the Beer Parlour and a vote. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 09:48, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

See: Special:Diff/86479302. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 10:21, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Thank you for the continued discussion. I'd like to address each of your points systematically.

• Regarding "habit" vs "convention": When multiple major language communities consistently implement the same approach across their respective label modules, this represents more than a mere "habit"—it constitutes a de facto standard practice. The absence of formal documentation doesn't negate the significance of this cross-linguistic consistency. Those who wish to deviate from this established pattern should demonstrate why such deviation is necessary.
• On the "inner modifier" technical solution: I see you've now implemented this using the <<>> syntax, making both country and city names clickable links. While this does provide some navigation functionality, I notice that <<France>> (<<Toulouse>>) links to basic Wiktionary entries for "France" and "Toulouse" rather than to linguistically relevant articles. This seems less useful than the submodule approach, where display = "France ({{w|Meridional French|Toulouse}})" would link "Toulouse" directly to the Wikipedia article about Meridional French—giving users immediate access to actual linguistic information rather than just geographical facts. And the latter implementation addresses the technical linking concern but still doesn't resolve the fundamental question: does adding "France" provide meaningful value when "Toulouse" alone (properly linked to relevant linguistic content) would be more informative and less redundant?
• About the edit on miroirs: This actually demonstrates my respect for your earlier request. You asked me on August 23rd to stop modifying audio qualifiers. When I edited miroirs on August 25th—two days later—I deliberately left the "Canada (Shawinigan)" label unchanged out of deference to your request, adding only the IPA^(key): /tɔ̃ɡ.si.dɛ/ template. This wasn't inconsistency; it was compliance with your expressed wishes while still contributing useful content.
• On community input: I think this issue would benefit from broader community discussion. As someone who primarily works on Chinese entries rather than French, I recognize I may not be fully aware of all the considerations specific to the French community. I may raise this question at BP to see what the wider community thinks about consistency in audio pronunciation formatting across languages, and whether there should be standard guidelines for this sort of thing. TongcyDai (talk) 10:33, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

They do link to the linguistic Wikipedia articles. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 10:37, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Thank you for the clarification—you're absolutely right about the <<>> syntax, and I appreciate you implementing this solution. TongcyDai (talk) 14:32, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

User:TongcyDai/EditCounterOptIn.js

I ran into this file while trying to empty Special:DoubleRedirects. Is there a reason it redirects to itself? As I understand it, any content will work as long as it isn't empty- so you could easily get rid of the redirect code that's confusing the system. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 04:47, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: I’ve updated the page so it no longer redirects to itself. Thanks for pointing it out! TongcyDai (talk) 07:55, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

"should use {{list doc}} instead"

You have tagged a few documentation pages for deletion with this reasoning. First, how is this a reason to delete the page rather than replace its content? And second, that template says it is obsolete right there, so why are you saying it should be used? — Polomo ⟨⁠ ⁠oi!⁠ ⁠⟩ · 15:46, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

@Polomo Hi. My reasoning for deletion was based on consistency and maintenance. I noticed that other templates in the Template:list:Latin script letters/... series do not have individual /documentation subpages. Instead, they rely on {{list doc}} to automatically generate the standard documentation. Even if {{documentation}} eventually absorbs the functionality of {{list doc}} in the future, retaining these manual subpages would likely prevent that smart logic from triggering correctly. Therefore, deleting them and use {{list doc}} temporarily seemed like the cleanest way to ensure they behave consistently with other list templates that rely entirely on auto-generation without physical subpages.

I honestly missed the "obsolete" warning on {{list doc}}. However, I was guided by the fact that the template still has over 2,000 transclusions and appears to be the standard for almost all similar letter-list templates. I just wanted to align these two pages with the existing system. TongcyDai (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

books

Hello, do you have scanned copies of the《龙岩方言词典》and 《莆仙方言大词典》, thanks. @TongcyDai AmoyChew (talk) 22:24, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

@AmoyChew Yes. I do have those scans and am happy to share. Since I can't post public links or upload copyrighted files here, do you have Discord or an alternative way for me to send them to you privately? TongcyDai (talk) 02:04, 4 May 2026 (UTC)

Is your Discord username "TongcyDai"? I've added you, thank you. @TongcyDai AmoyChew (talk) 06:52, 4 May 2026 (UTC)

Do not move autocat categories

Please do not move or mark for deletion categories supported by {{auto cat}} next time. It makes it hard to delete empty ones when you do that. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 07:13, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Apologies for the inconvenience. Could you please clarify the correct procedure for dealing with categories supported by {{auto cat}}? TongcyDai (talk) 07:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

Leave them as they are. I regularly delete empty ones as part of the routine creation of wanted categories supported by {{auto cat}}. I started this process last week after User:WingerBot has been inactive since last February. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 07:27, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

@Fenakhay Understood. I'll leave them as they are and keep this in mind for the future.

On a related note, I'd like to hear your thoughts on another issue with {{auto cat}} categories. Sometimes these categories become empty because a language name, language code, or naming format was changed. The current workflow seems to be deleting the old category and having a bot create the new one. However, the old category often already has a Wikidata item linked to other Wiktionaries. When a new category is created instead of being moved, it often spawns a duplicate Wikidata item, which causes conflicts and maintenance headaches for other language projects (I frequently maintain interwiki links between enwikt, zhwikt and Wikidata).

Do you have any thoughts on how we might handle this to avoid these Wikidata conflicts? TongcyDai (talk) 07:44, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

In cases of renaming, the categories are usually moved rather than deleted and recreated. That's what Benwing2 has generally done, afaik.

As for categories that end up being deleted and later recreated under the same name, I think the best solution would be to run a bot on Wikidata that reattaches them to their original Wikidata items. Comparing the category name with the English label on Wikidata would probably work well for identifying the correct item in most cases. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 09:07, 11 May 2026 (UTC)