Talk:Wessex

Flag

Should flag be added Coldgeep9 (talk) 22:59, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

No. A flag is anachronistic. Wessex did not have a flag. Dudley Miles (talk) 10:43, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Coldgeep9, just to add to this, the flag in question (File:FlagOfWessex.svg), as is covered in the Symbols section, was created in the 1970s, by William Crampton, as a flag for a possible modern day Wessex region. While the kingdom's armies seem to have used some sort of Draco, those were widespread among european armies and don't necessarily mean that they represented "Wessex" as a concept at that time. The association between Wyvern's and specifically Wessex seems only to be popularised in 19th century. Therefore any flag for Wessex and more specifically 70s Crampton flag would be completely impropriate for a polity that stopped existing in the 10th c. Cakelot1 ☞️ talk 12:50, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The Kingdom of Wessex ceased to exist in 927

(copied from User talk:Martinevans123):

I put this because politically, Wessex ceased to exist and annexed by the Kingdom of England in 927 when Æthelstan unified the petty English kingdoms into one political entity. The writer fixer (talk) 17:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello The writer fixer. I see you are a new editor, I'm sure you're very welcome to make any necessary corrections. But if you do, you need to add some kind of WP:RS source(s) which support(s) your claims. If you don't mind, I'll copy this thread over to Talk:Wessex, where is better belongs. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, if you can please do that so that we can debate there. But if you don't mind, would you like to tell me how I can add sources so I can know better next time? The writer fixer (talk) 18:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

You will need to start with the source that shows you 927? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, it is universally known amd accepted that the Kingdom of England was unified by Æthelstan who declared himself as king of the English in 927. Before this, he was king of Wessex and the Anglo Saxons. After 927 Wessex wasn't a sovereign state, since it was now absorbed into the Kingdom of England. The writer fixer (talk) 19:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Æthelstan was considered king of the anglo Saxons and not crowded as king of Wessex. But the title king of the anglo-saxons was mostly a ceremonial one and it was still Wessex after Alfred declared himself king of the anglo Saxons The writer fixer (talk) 19:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Is that's all "universally known and accepted", it's probably going to be quite easy for you to cite a reliable source where that's written down. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

There was not a fixed date when Wessex ceased to exist. As late as 957 the kingdom was divided between Eadwig ruling Wessex and Edgar ruling the rest of England. It only lasted until Eadwig's death in 959. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello. So I actually have 2 pretty reliable sources. First, in the other Wikipedia page about the Kingdom of England, it says it was founded in 927 by Æthelstan. Also in the Wikipedia page about the wars England have fought, they start after. Now for Wessex, we've put that it ended in 886 when Alfred the Great declared himself king of the Anglo Saxons. But if this page says it ceased to exist in 886 and the other says that the Kingdom of England was founded in 927 then, there's something wrong. We either have to put that England was founded in 886 or Wessex ceased to exist as a sovereign state in 927. Personally, I think the second option is more right. We basically haven't decided the period between 886-927. The writer fixer (talk) 14:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:WPNOTRS. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't give a reason why the period between 886-927 there's neither Wessex or England The writer fixer (talk) 15:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No it doesn't. I just tells you that you can't use other Wikipedia articles as a source. I was expecting you to quote a passage in a book, written by a notable historian, which says "the Kingdom of Wessex ceased to exist in 927". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Ah ok then. When I will find the source I will send it to you The writer fixer (talk) 16:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't send it to me. Just paste it here. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

But also we need to clarify what to do about the period of 886-927. Here it says wessex lasted until 886 and in the Wikipedia it says Engaged was created in 927. What about 886-927? The writer fixer (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The late 880s (the exact year is not known) was the start of the Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons, originally comprising Wessex and western Mercia. Eastern Mercia and East Anglia were conquered from the Vikings by the late 910s. Northumbria was conquered in 927, but it moved back and forth between English and Viking kings until the Northumbrian magnates finally expelled the last Viking king and accepted English rule in 954. Dudley Miles (talk) 17:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Then why there isn't a Wikipedia page about this "Kingdom of the anglo Saxons" and we have put that Wessex ended in 886 and England started on 927? Also when Alfred adopted the title of "King of the Anglo Saxon" it was mostly ceremonial, as he didn't control all the anglo saxon territories and people of England. The writer fixer (talk) 19:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

How should we call the period between 886-927?

886 - Alfred the Great declares himself as king of the Anglo-Saxons 927 - Æthelstan conques the last remaining viking land in England and declares himself king of the English The writer fixer (talk) 22:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

We do not know whether Alfred ever declared himself king of the Anglo-Saxons or Æthelstan king of the English. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle says that in 886 all Angelcyn not under Danish rule submitted to Alfred as their lord, and some later charters describe him as king of the Anglo-Sasons. Historians think that the submission was probaby by the west Mercians, who had not been conquered by the Vikings, unlike the east Mercians, and title was probably adopted at that time. Æthelstan conquered Northumbria, the last Viking kingdom, in 927, and thereafter adopted grandiose titles such as 'King ot the English and of all Britain'. There were several periods after his death that Viking kings regained control of Northumbria, ending in 954. The history of the period is not so clear cut that we can give definite years for the start and end of the kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons, and I think that it is better to leave it vague unless someone comes up with a satisfactory solution. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, maybe we should put that the Kingdom of England was created in the 10th century and that the Kingdom of Wessex ceased to exist in the same time since this all didn't happen in a single year but transformed slowly into thr kingdom of England. The writer fixer (talk) 16:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Can we change it so that the kingdom of Wessex ended in like 10th or 11th century?

It would make more sense The writer fixer (talk) 23:00, 16 July 2025 (UTC)