"Democracy in the USA is being abolished"

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• In a ZDF documentary, Claus Kleber sheds light on the surprising alliance between US President Trump and the tech giants of Silicon Valley.
• In an interview, he talks about the alliance between the American super-rich and Trump and the strategies used to hijack the oldest democracy in the Western world.
• The German journalist and author sees the subservience of tech billionaires to Donald Trump as a decisive factor.

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Claus Kleber laughs quite often during the interview for his new ZDF report "Trump and Silicon Valley - coup d'état of the tech billionaires". The former "heute journal" anchorman, one of Germany's most astute political observers, is now retired from the news.

Kleber has just returned from his fourth trip through Silicon Valley and the USA under President Trump. What Kleber brings back with him is no laughing matter. It may even be the laughter of despair. After his research into the USA, Claus Kleber, 69, comes to the conclusion: "Democracy in the USA is being abolished." In this interview, he talks about the alliance between the American super-rich and Trump and the strategies being used to hijack the oldest democracy in the Western world.

This is your fourth time reporting from Silicon Valley, but your documentary has never been as political as 2025. Are you surprised at how submissive the tech billionaires are towards Donald Trump?

Claus Kleber: I didn't think it would turn out like this. I was subject to the same misjudgment as most people. Incidentally, I asked your question myself to Professor Fred Turner from Stanford University, a historian and sociologist. He said: "We always thought that Silicon Valley was working on a positive and free future for humanity. He just laughed and said: "You see, their marketing worked."

So Silicon Valley has never been humanistic and democratic?

Kleber: Most of them are radical economic liberals. They want a total free market and, above all, no regulation whatsoever. Sebastian Thrun, a very successful German in Silicon Valley, is considered a pioneer in the fields of autonomous driving and AI. He once told me: "We are so successful because we are far too fast for politics. What happens here in Silicon Valley is so fast that legislators and the administrative apparatus don't even notice it. Before politicians can react, the market has already absorbed an innovation and won't let it go.

So has politics long since lost out to Silicon Valley? Is Trump a pawn of Big Tech?

Kleber: At least he is a better partner for them than the Biden administration. The latter had recognized the problem and acted in an almost European way. They wanted to limit the power of the big tech companies. The Biden government, for example, had a clear view of the negative consequences of social media. Also the unforeseeable consequences of AI. All of these areas need to be managed and controlled so that society does not lose control. The headwind from Washington triggered all kinds of anger in the tech industry at the time. It is therefore logical that Trump, who stands for an unleashed economy, is a much better fit for Silicon Valley.

Elon Musk, the richest of all tech billionaires, has gone to Washington himself. In your opinion, do other Silicon Valley representatives have a direct influence there?

Kleber: Yes, the tech industry is very well organized. The new government in Washington is full of people who were hand-picked in San Francisco and the Valley. Peter Thiel, a right-wing conservative and very influential player there, one of the founders of PayPal, has elevated one man, JD Vance, to the office of Vice President. JD Vance is a pure Thiel creature. Vance is considered by many to be Trump's designated successor. Now that the new government has been in office for a while, it is clear to see: The restructuring, one could even say dismantling, of American democratic institutions is progressing at a rapid pace.

Are there people among the tech billionaires who want to save the democracies?

Kleber: No, I don't see anyone stepping forward militantly. Of course, people in the USA are protesting against this development, but they don't have much power. They are activists, journalists, authors and politicians. I met Tristan Harris from the Center for Humane Technology, for example. A Silicon Valley and technology insider who fights for humanist goals. You can watch his movie "The Social Dilemma" about the consequences of social media on Netflix. Among the really powerful people there, I can't think of anyone who wouldn't have fallen to their knees before Trump. The shock and fear in the new America are omnipresent.

Does the tech elite also fear Trump a little?

Kleber: It's a mixture of enthusiasm, because you can earn even more money and achieve your goals - like Musk - and fear. The latter prevails with Mark Zuckerberg, for example, because Trump is currently doing little to prevent the break-up of Zuckerberg's company Meta. Trump has allied himself with Musk, at least temporarily. He is letting Zuckerberg flounder. It's this typical Trump policy of threatening and offering deals that supposedly benefit both sides.

In your opinion, who are the most powerful men in Silicon Valley?

Kleber: Definitely Peter Thiel, a German expatriate by the way, who many people don't even know. Then Marc Andreessen from Andreessen Horowitz, an enormously successful venture capital firm. They have co-financed virtually everything that is successful on the market and profited accordingly from its success. You can get very rich very quickly in Silicon Valley and gain influence accordingly. Luckey Palmer is a good example. He was a pale teenager who sat in front of a screen all the time. He developed virtual reality glasses, which Mark Zuckerberg bought from him for two billion dollars. However, he also had to work for Zuckerberg in return.

What happened to him?

Kleber: He quickly moved to the right side of the political spectrum - at a time when that was not yet fashionable. Zuckerberg kicked him out and he then founded a defense company that was essentially co-financed by Peter Thiel. It's all about AI-supported weapons systems.

What about Jeff Bezos from Amazon?

Kleber: Of course he is also an important player. If only because there is probably no one else who has collected so much data about humanity. It is assumed that Bezos has at least 1,000 data points of specific information on every person who orders from Amazon. It doesn't get much more transparent than that.

Did you ask one or two tech billionaires to speak to you for the film?

Kleber: Yes, of course we tried. But these people don't talk to journalists. I was in contact with Peter Thiel's office, and also with Alex Karp from Palantir. In the end, we didn't get an interview. Palantir is a very scary company. The most powerful when it comes to tracking people. They have also weaponized AI. Alex Karp, the head of Palantir, has publicly expressed his excitement about being able to track down every villain in the world with his technology.

He says something like: "We find them - and occasionally we kill them." Of course, this has to be taken further in the sense that not only villains, but basically every person in the world can be tracked down. Karp has become a billionaire several times over thanks to Palantir. The stock market value of his company has recently risen from 60 billion to 300 billion. Also thanks to Trump and his decisions. It's a give and take.

Who is at the wheel - Trump or the billionaires?

Kleber: It's a bit like the question of the chicken and the egg. In case of doubt, I would say the billionaires. At least they have a very good chance of getting what they want in this world. Professor Turner says that America's democratic elites are in a state of shock and fear. Big and previously powerful people in politics, business, research, teaching and journalism in the USA are now working in a fear-driven way. This is a process that he would never have thought possible, says Professor Turner. That's what this very experienced, calm and academic guy says ...

So American democracy is finished?

Kleber: Quite a few thinkers and political analysts are convinced of this. We met Curtis Yarvin, who is a bit like Peter Thiel's in-house philosopher. He says that democracy today, with its enormous powers, is too contradictory and cumbersome to be able to cope with challenges. He says we need a modern monarchy. A monarchy of the technical elite.

Is there no contradiction at all?

Kleber: Not in the influential tech scene, but that's not the only place where decisions are made. There is the possibility that a movement will emerge in society that says: "We're not going to go along with this anymore, we don't like it." In principle, people can stand up against anything and defend themselves. That would be appropriate, because it's pretty scary what's happening. On the other hand, the state is working at high speed to track down troublemakers using data analysis.

What do you mean by that?

Kleber: The main aim of DOGE, Elon Musk's agency, is not to make government leaner and more efficient, but to bring together the data from all the authorities. DOGE now has access to all individual citizen data that was previously collected and managed separately: Tax data, medical care, immigration and so on. All of this data is now in the same hands, namely those of Musk's agency and therefore those of Musk. It is a treasure trove of data that once again creates completely new opportunities for making money and control.

Is the USA becoming a surveillance state?

Kleber: They are certainly getting their tools ready.

So far, we haven't seen any mass demonstrations in the USA. Will there be such protests - or who can stop this process?

Kleber: I don't think there will be any such mass protests in the near future. The more likely positive scenario would be that Trump shoots himself in the foot through economic and financial capers. That his own hubris causes him to stumble. Perhaps the Democrats in Congress can achieve a block on this type of policy. That is not out of the question; it could happen quickly. As early as next year in the 2026 elections, but who knows what else will have happened by then.

What do you think will happen?

Kleber: I fear we are facing an irrevocable turning point in the history of human self-organization. Democracy in the USA will be abolished. Those who are fighting against this process there are looking hopefully to Europe. Perhaps already as a place of refuge.