When I was working on Food & Wine’s official wine guidebook in 2000, I had to taste hundreds and hundreds of designated wines and I found that I hated most of them. Then, I started to really drill into what it was that I was or wasn’t liking in two bottles from the same part of, say, the Loire Valley, or Rhône. And as it turned out, according to my research, the wines I was most drawn to were largely organically farmed and made with low sulfur, native yeasts and no new oak. At the time, I didn’t know about all the additives that were possible in winemaking or all the high-tech processes—but as I learned more and more (and wrote more and more), I became convinced that natural wine was, indeed, most compelling to me. 

At that time, how did your industry peers respond to your affinity for natural wine?
Well, I didn’t really start talking about natural wine until probably 2010, except for a few journalistic pieces here and there. My first book didn’t even mention natural wine, because natural wine was just... wine. It still is. 

For the most part, back then, editors wouldn’t even engage with me on the subject. I remember a Gourmet editor telling me once that he’d love to work with me, but that I absolutely could not pitch a story on natural wine. For a lot of publications, it was a threat to various advertisers and stakeholders. It was dangerous and controversial. 

How have you watched the natural wine scene shape-shift since the early aughts?
Of course, when anything goes from fringe to mainstream, things will change substantially. Around 2001, when I was getting really interested in these wines, there weren’t many places to drink them. There were definitely some spots in Paris—but just a few of them—and in New York, The Ten Bells wasn’t even open yet. There were a handful of places that had one or two natural bottles on the menu, but for the most part, if I wanted to drink what I liked, I had to drink it at home. Now, there are places everywhere. 

Also, back then, natural wine wasn’t being marketed, exactly. That was before all the goofy, super designed labels and social media promotion. A lot of people were even selling their wine directly to consumers. Now, I’m not shaming anyone on that front. There’s so much competition—people really do have to do what it takes to sell their wines. But the problem is that, now, the ethos is:  Hey, I want to make my living off of natural wine by marketing natural wine and let’s make it a party. I have mixed feelings about this. Again, I don’t fault anyone for wanting to make a living off of doing what they love ... but I do have a hard time with natural wine being marketed as a party drug when it can be very serious and very well-made. 

How have you watched the world of wine media change over time?
There used to be a number of publications that took wine quite seriously, but as creative control has been passed down at various publications, things have changed. That said, it has always amazed me that wine and food are so separate in this country—and from a media standpoint, I don’t think wine has ever been given the respect it deserves at the table. If you ask me, in addition to rising prices, that may have something to do with the wine industry failing right now. 

Given that natural wine appears to have reached Peak Hype, it seems like plenty of folks are declaring that the pendulum is swinging in the other direction—and natural wine is over.
I think the people who are saying that natural wine is over are the same people who, 10 or 15 years ago, would’ve been opposed to the premise to begin with. And to me, it’s irritating because it’s ignorant. Sure, there are people who are opposed to FUBAR wines, but that’s not the same as disliking natural wine on the whole. Certainly, there are people out there who need to get their shit together and make some better wine, but those few lazy producers are not at all representative of the whole oeuvre of natural wine. You know, it really pisses me off, because I have no idea how or when that became the association. And it’s so narrow-minded.

These people who are claiming they’re over natural wine ... for me, it’s like, excuse me, what do you actually know about these wines and these producers? What is it that you do and don’t like? If you met one guy you didn’t like from any given culture, would you say, It’s a culture of terrible people? “Natural wine” is not synonymous with “flawed” just because you had one subpar bottle, and people need to understand that. There’s so much incredibly clean, tight, beautiful natural wine out there. 

Do you have any predictions for the natural wine scene moving forward?
The fact of the matter is, traditionally made—what we often call “natural”—wines have been around for eternity, and for that reason, I don’t think there’s any chance they’re going anywhere. I mean, you’re not going to improve on a beautiful heirloom tomato, right? You’re not going to say it’s going out of fashion.

The difference is, now, there’s a whole lot of money-making industry behind additives, which is certainly a force that’s working against us. But we need to stop associating natural wine with something that’s fucked up. There are trends in natural wine and phases in marketing, but natural wine itself is not the trend. 

Are there any immediate upshots?
You know, I spoke to a lovely Slovakian winemaker—[Zsolt Sütó, of] Strekov—about additives in wine. He said to me, Hey, I know I should be adding some sulfur to balance out my wines, sometimes. That way, I’d throw out less wine. But I just can’t. 

That’s the kind of statement that gives you hope. I just love it—he really believes in his wine, and in zero-zero production. But he’s not so interested in selling more and more that he’ll put wine he doesn’t stand behind on the market. That’s not a trend—it’s fantastic, honest winemaking.