NVDA and Thunderbird Inquiry

I will open a discussion about this in the chat group since the topic has nothing to do with NVDA or any screen-reader.  I strongly disagree that the way forward is to make something more simple for blind people.  That helps give blind people no incentive for learning use of standard programs, encourages them to believe they can't successfully and conveniently use standard programs.  And your claim ab out having to bang on the keyboard several times is just not true as a generalization. 

Gene

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That may not be the case when the program is out of beta, but I wouldn't go through the trouble of getting an application password just to test this program.  Also, we don't know if the program  can automate setting up accounts with many providers, as current email programs can, generally.  For a lot of users, the days of having to know port numbers, the security protocol used, and the addresses of the servers the service uses are long over.

Gene

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I did read the Github page and the description sent to the list.  While I didn't recall that specific statement that you would add it, I didn't read all the information repeatedly, I left it opened as to whether it would be.  I was talking about now and saying that some or perhaps a good number of people won't test it because of the need to get an application password.  Your comment that it will be added may clarify the question because many people may not have read all the information sent to the list. 

Years ago, I briefly used an application password.  I turned on two-factor authentication for my account, which people should do anyway, if it isn't on, and I went through whatever the procedure is to get an application password after that.  It isn't that it is particularly difficult or involved, but even so, I doubt a lot of people will get one to test one program.

Gene

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I see I didn't read all your message before answering because I was involved with the topic.

You do address the automated setup question in the message and you can set up accounts using information in the program so setup should be similar to setting up in other email programs.

I didn't object to single letter commands.  Another list member did and your message implies that I did.  But I think it is an objection worth heeding.  As a long time Winamp user, I'd far prefer there not to be single letter commands because they may unintentionally be issued. 

On a broader note, my objection to the program isn't whether it has single letter commands.  I object to programs that state their purpose is to make things easier for blind people, thus reinforcing the idea that blind people can't or that it is a lot of trouble to use, a standard off-the-shelf program. 

I won't go into that further here because it is off topic for the list, but I will say your statement that you have to bang on the keyboard many times to invoke a procedure is factually, not a matter of opinion, wrong when commenting on Thunderbird.  There are settings that you may have to go through inconvenient layers to get to, but in terms of commonly used commands and for many not so commonly used commands, you can use them efficiently in Thunderbird if you know how to use short cuts in standard programs in general.  And even if you don't,, knowing a small number of commands let's you do what most people do with an email program. 

Also, using victim language such as my crime was, etc. implies that people who object to such programs are persecuting you.  That simply isn't the case. 

I don't use the app specific password thing, in fact I got rid of all of mine and just use my default password for my gmail on any program, and have for years. 

I agree with Jean that  J and all the key strokes if you are not careful will lead you into a mess. I turned that feature off in Thunderbird as I accidentally through mail into my jump folder as I forgot where I was when typing a reply.

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So you know, my name is Gene not Jean. 

Whether I tried the app is irrelevant.  Most of what I said in the last few days has nothing to do with working with the app.  My point is to     question the approach of creating simple applications for blind people.  Of course, anyone may use them but people generally won't and that is the context I am speaking about. 

Even if the app works perfectly, is exquisitely organized, and has other good qualities has nothing to do with almost all my comments.  I'd raise the same question whether I tried the app or not.  Is creating an app for blind users a good solution for helping blind people become better, more confident computer users.  Just claiming this isn't an issue doesn't make your statement true.  It is just an unsupported claim.

As to Thunderbird, for example, you may object to it because it doesn't place you in the inbox automatically when you open the program.  If you were in the inbox when you closed it, after opening the program, just using the command shift f6 once places you in the message list 

In the new Outlook, I haven't used the old one, no matter where you are in the program, the command control shift i moves you immediately to the inbox message list.  I'm not writing that as an endorsement of the program.  Others may decide what they think.  I am saying that you haven't proven that your program does x better or more easily than other email programs, using available short cuts. 

Learning things such as using f6 and shift f6 in the program is knowledge that may be transferred to working with other programs.  Making a special program teaches no new skills or information except how to use that one special program.  It's like learning how to get to one store in your city or town rather than learning how to travel by memorizing the names and order of streets and being able to get somewhere because someone gives you the address.

I won't respond further unless I have important points to make and my response isn't just repeating myself. 

Gene

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